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Post by apolloswill on Oct 20, 2015 0:19:39 GMT
Hi Guys....knock it off. Yeah, I'm not an admin, but knock it off. This is a game. The game have rules. There is no right way or wrong way to play it, as it is all done right for us in the game (now table top is a different matter). Some people like to foul, some people don't. Some people show mercy, some don't. There is also halflings, dwarves, goblins and demons in this game. It all belongs. I'm scared shitless to fight Michaels (in the game mind you. I saw a picture of you. I'm twice your height ), but it's cool. If I wanted to play the same kind of player all the time, I would just keep beating the AI. It is not about taking away the fun from anyone. The fun for us here is to play Blood Bowl, with all the rules that are. Not to rip up old wounds, but this was all the discussion regarding dwarves or no dwarves. The discussions are like a debate whatever or not it is to breath air. It seem so inconvenient, but if we want to continue the game of life, that is what we do. And I like that game as well. Yes, it's alright to get pissed. The game sucks sometimes, but as I said for some time ago, this is also why this game is so cool. Because when you win, it feels amazing. I don't like to take people's teams apart, and yes, I get pissed when people do it too me. But in the end it's alright. They are allowed to do it, and I will tell you, "just wait until I get the upper hand in our next game". But it's cool. It creates rivalry. It create arch types players. Again, I see, Michaels as a scary motherfucker, Havol as the Gandalf of Iron Phoenix, Parrigan as Sir Lancelot, and Ren as Brother Tuck. Don't make me go in to details, but I like that. I don't know you guys outside of this forum, and therefore it is somehow all just like a novel. An escape from the treadmill of life. Yes, fight, discuss, and even get angry if needed. But than get it out of your system, and get back to what we all enjoy. A good game of Blood Bowl. Yes, I didn't add anything to this discussion, but again, KNOCK IT OFF. We all probably have enough drama outside these forum walls and in the game. If you guys are pissed at each other, go dug it out in-game.
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Post by Squiggy on Oct 20, 2015 0:24:38 GMT
If you guys are pissed at each other, go dug it out in-game. This so much. Wouldnt it be nice if we could settle all disputes with a digital punch-up? Both players make rookie teams, with the offended party picking the race, then just kick the crap out of each other til you both realise IT'S A BLOODY GAME and just agree to disagree. Also, I love your thoughts on PN = X, Michaels = Y, etc...you've made me wonder about that now! For example, I see Hudd as The professor, always calculating, always planning, then coming up with some move that makes you just sit there blinking, going "wtf just happened" as he scores again...Michaels as that crazy uncle we all have (admit it), and so on! That gave me a much needed chuckle PLEASE do!
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Post by michaels on Oct 20, 2015 0:51:18 GMT
I don't even see where there's anger in this. I made it pretty clear that myself (& I'm guessing other admins) are open to a reasonable & logical idea concerning forfeits & the discussion is on the table. I'm not angry & I doubt I'll get angry...I let CJ do all the anger-stuff. With that said, we're in no way interested in other people's ideas of sportsmanship & fair play being pushed on others. The game is what it is in many regards & if you don't like it then find another game (Until Dawn is really good, I recommend it.). I highly doubt anyone is out to destroy anyone's team for personal reasons & the few people we've come across that are highly toxic have been removed. We're all competitive & playing a competitive game. We've all been on the receiving end of a dice-shitstorm but none of us have asked the admins to step in & reset their team or hug them until the seasons over. I'll reiterate my statement on another forum topic: "Embrace the carnage & you'll be much happier!". Also, fuck dwarves....so much. Moving on; if you (anyone) had ideas about forfeiting rules to propose it'd be nice to get more ideas as that's how this whole mess started. Here's the previous whatever I was tossing around as it made the most sense to me at the time...granted it was late & I was tired. Proposal 1: A verbal agreement (I know I said that I don't do agreements but this one has a caveat I can tolerate) that the opponent will lay down, stop taking blocks & hit End Turn IMMEDIATELY the rest of the match. In this case, the winning team has to ensure that they are ahead on the scoreboard before the game is out. This would also assume that the forfeiting team has taken a substantial amount of damage & has no hope of winning. If the winning team is ahead on the scoreboard they must hit End Turn as well the remainder of the match & not milk spp's. This rule would keep the MVP's & gold split for both teams & seems the closest to TT rules.
Proposal 2: Use the in-game forfeit method. The winner gets double gold & double MVP.Prop1 would simulate as close as possible the TT forfeit rule that still gives an MVP & gold to the losing team while also alleviating the continued team destruction that could come from the winning team. The criteria for allowing a forfeit in this case is still TBD. Prop2 is the same old same old. The criteria for allowing a forfeit in this case is still TBD. Prop3 is yet to be introduced but probably will cause I'm sure I missed something that a smarter coach will think of & point out. IDEAS....GO!!! PS: It's true. I can barely reach the top shelf.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2015 0:54:29 GMT
I don't like to take people's teams apart, and yes, I get pissed when people do it too me. But in the end it's alright. They are allowed to do it, and I will tell you, "just wait until I get the upper hand in our next game". But it's cool. It creates rivalry. It create arch types players. Again, I see, Michaels as a scary motherfucker, Havol as the Gandalf of Iron Phoenix, Parrigan as Sir Lancelot, and Ren as Brother Tuck. Don't make me go in to details, but I like that. I would really like some details In retrospect I regret getting involved in this string of arguments. I said to myself "this can only end in tears, lets do it!". Not the most prudent choice
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Post by parrigan on Oct 20, 2015 2:59:22 GMT
Just catching up here, and it appears I missed a lot...
Apollo, do you know if Artie is still mad about that thing with me and Gwen? I mean, maybe if he wasn't out kinging around all the time she wouldn't have strayed...
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Post by Kaiser on Oct 20, 2015 15:19:24 GMT
first up on the Forfeiting matches bit i wanted to add my 2 cents worth in BB2 i recently played a game in the public league and i did the master play of all plays i was skaven he was orc i think (i have the replay its awesome) he had bashed my team and on turn 4 i lay down and waited he ran his thrower with the ball to the goal line and then the fouling began turn 5 he fouled again (stun I think) and i just ended my turn and counted out the squares to his ball carrier turn 6 he fouled and I quickly ended turn to make look like it was all over my hope was he would get some sent off turn 7 he moved some his cage away to get a bigger gang foul and i think had a player sent off, thats when i pounced, i took the "fuck it" attitude know he would walk it in next turn at least i would try to force him to make a block, maybe he will roll double skulls, I blitzed and on a 1 dice (may have been 2 red dice) got the ball free he was unable to get the ball back and so the half ended 0-0 second half i got the ball and score, went on to win 1-0 just coz some 1 lays down does not always mean they have given up also though I am an elf lover and like the non bash part of the game, I think you have to see it from a bash teams view fast elf skaven teams can score fast and score big (i have scored 7-0 or 7-1, 3 or 4 times in IP leagues and i have scored 2 times 8-0 in games in the 6 or so years i have played online with elf teams thats how fast teams level. bash teams dont score many and so rely on the 2 points for an inj if you lay down you are also slowing their chance to level and less likely to win in that league (unless its already an advanced team) so they may be fouling to get you to stand up so they can try to level as it may not be fair to them I have (immortal league) used to concede rule once, it was early in the season and I still had a chance to make it (i thought) so i did it to save the team (vs Hudds killer orcs) later in the season i played the game out, I was always going to in the next one for to concede a second time would have given me no chance to make the finals, (i didnt anyway) you all make interesting points and as voltaire (miss quoted to have said but i give to him anyway) and i agree with " I may not agree with what you say but i will fight to the death for your right to say it" (now i know thats not the quote word for word but its the sentiment that's the point and so with that in mind gone, aka fatzomy you in your own words came with the intention to force an outcome and when that outcome didnt go your way, you got upset (spat the dummy, assie slang) and though I am normally ok with a good dummy spit, you pulled your team out of a running league and that made a lot more work for me, It has been know to crash leagues (bb1) and freeze teams (mine in kangaroo cup) you need to take a good hard look at your actions, in my book pulling your team out was not very sporting and not fun for the others in said leagues so careful with those stones your throwing. you could have come to me if an admin had upset you and we could have worked this through proper channels. If you wish to talk on this further I am happy to listen, can be done in pm's I posted this here so all players know that if they have a problem with an admin they can come to myself, Havol and ren are level headed and good listeners too and if its a prob with me then see the other admins, If i am ever in the wrong i am more than happy to admit it, as are the admins here, so please all players dont feel "if" and admin is doing you wrong we wont take your side and listen, we are all accountable and we all strive to make this a fun place to escape reality if just for a shot time.
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Post by jounisii on Oct 23, 2015 11:32:05 GMT
Sticking my oar in. Imho all kinds of bash teams/coaches can't complain about excessive violence on pitch. After all, most of the races/teams which are called bashy aim to murderize opponents to win the match. A damn valid tactic trying to obtain field advantage. Of course there are the passy dorfs and stymie nurgles for example but those are more like curiosities. For example orcs are meant to destroy AG teams and rarely they show mercy when elf numbers start to dwindle. So I can understand Michaels wanting to destroy everything in his team's way. It's his strategy. I have a similar team brewing in Iron (even though they like their pillows way too much). I play AV7 elfies a lot in other less lighthearted leagues. Playing more bashy teams (I consider lizzies somewhat bashy) in here is therapy for me after those countless hours I spend crying over my precious broken elf teams. I wanna exact my revenge to the evil world! But to the actual point. I'm not a fan of DCs. So don't like Michaels's #2 proposal. Verbal agreements I can tolerate. I have given mercy to my oppo at times when asked and a couple of times I've stated that I won't resist anymore, giving my oppo freedom to foul if he wants to. More often than not, they'll stop booting after that. But we have to be really careful about the conditions here. In league play there are situations at times when your team has to try to run up the score (to get to play-offs for example), so they don't wanna just stop. Another example is when you play against a big rival of yours (you're likely to meet in P-Os or you compete for that P-O spot). You want to totally obliterate that team. So the point is that the losing team shouldn't get any unfair advantage just by saying "I concede and lay down". Also pass farming should be allowed after concession. You (or Nuffle) have played yourself into a position of dominance and those few points could be a small but crucial bonus for your efforts. As the final note, I have full confidence in our admins (even in Michaels ). Keep up the good work.
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Post by Squiggy on Oct 23, 2015 11:45:55 GMT
(even in Michaels ). And you were doing so well there jounisii...
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Post by jounisii on Oct 23, 2015 13:07:04 GMT
(even in Michaels ). And you were doing so well there jounisii... But Michaels is such a cute little puppy - he barks like a hellhound before the match and maybe during it, but then lets me win Having mulled the issue over a bit (don't lemme think, nothing good never comes out of it), I actually do have a suggestion. After a certain treshold of permanent injuries or deaths (simple BHs and MNGs don't count), say 3, a team is allowed to concede. The number can naturally be whatever admins deem fitting. After that the winning team won't be allowed to block or boot anymore. But they can run up the score as much as they can/want to. After a score, the loser puts his pieces into a formation which hinders further scoring as little as possible. That continues until the match ends. It would take a little longer this way - turns still wouldn't be very long - but like this that concession would probably be reflected in TD difference. The thing this wouldn't resolve is the scenario where the winning team wants to really hurt the opposition for previously mentioned reasons. On top of that, I'd like to see teams which DC or abandon be docked points. For example fix a previous win of a team into a draw. That can be done in BBM. It wouldn't change anything in-game, but it'd show in BBM stats. I know these things might sound a bit harsh to many of you. I'm just used to play in ruthlessly competitive environment. This place is shall we say a tad "friendlier" and I understand if such tough measures I suggested won't be implemented. But at least I made a suggestion like big bad puppy asked for
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Post by Squiggy on Oct 23, 2015 13:48:40 GMT
And you were doing so well there jounisii... On top of that, I'd like to see teams which DC or abandon be docked points. For example fix a previous win of a team into a draw. That can be done in BBM. It wouldn't change anything in-game, but it'd show in BBM stats. Not harsh enough tbh. I'd prefer to see some variation of the 51spp rule brought in. Forced firing of highest spp healthy player, or maybe dice rolls for all players over level2, with a 6 (or 5-6) meaning that player quite the team. And if the coach isnt happy with that, then kick em from the league. I'm not talking about "emergency, gotta go" stuff (I had one of those with cerumol when my son was ill, but seeing as I was playing goblins, vs chaos, and actually doing rather well...not winning, but surviving...it was pretty clear I was conceding because RL got in the way, not a ragequit) and it's USUALLY pretty clear what the circumstances are.
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Post by jounisii on Oct 23, 2015 14:02:06 GMT
I'm ok with that 51 SPP rule (since I never DC or abandon ). A couple of seasons ago it was used in OCC as a warning. A chorf team with repeated abandons lost half of their over 51SPP players. I think over 300 SPPs down the drain. That is pretty brutal but it does almost nothing in lower tiers.
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Post by cerumol on Oct 23, 2015 14:18:44 GMT
I also agree with the 51 spp rule. It's what it is there for and also nice n fluffy. I don't see any need to over complicate this area.
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Post by michaels on Oct 23, 2015 19:52:50 GMT
After that the winning team won't be allowed to block or boot anymore but they can run up the score as much as they can/want to. After a score, the loser puts his pieces into a formation which hinders further scoring as little as possible. That continues until the match ends. It would take a little longer this way - turns still wouldn't be very long - but like this that concession would probably be reflected in TD difference. Not a fan of this idea as I thought we were trying to mimic TT conceding as closely as possible. If that's the case, once I hit the threshold of MNG's I'd stand up, kindly tell you to eat the hugest sack of dicks you can find & that would be game. We can recreate that same scenario via Proposal 1.
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Post by jounisii on Oct 23, 2015 22:32:52 GMT
You obviously (not surprisingly) missread me. As I said, rather clearly, that MNGs and BHs don't count towards the treshold. Which might be 3 or something else like 5. And the conceding team has to do nothing else but click end turn and possibly set the team up (kinda obvious). Any bad behaviour could be easily spotted in replays, if someone tries to abuse the conceding rule.
TT mimicing is ok, but it won't resolve all the problems.
The current abandon rule is a house rule anyways - once per season it's ok. With no consequences. I don't like it, but if you admin gods wanna keep it, I'd say it's better to make those concessions a bit more uninvitating.
This one is from my own experience. A few seasons back, Hiru abandoned our match quite early after some early CASes to preserve his team. That is allowed currently and imho that's plainly wrong. I'd like to see something done about it. If not my proposal, then something else.
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Post by gorgrael on Oct 24, 2015 23:09:02 GMT
This conceding once per season seems wrong to me. Its a get out of jail card or easy rest day when your team is in trouble, and way to soft. I say remove it from your rules and let thecoaching do the talking. If your elfies are getting out bashed up tough, this is what you're reserves are for? But telling coaches what to do in game, ie tho shall not lie down, is unmanageable and unfair. Its a good tactik. We cant change Auld but we can change the leagues we play in, so my Suggestion Is to remove this house rule and play Blood Bowl instead. Just my too dead ents.
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