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Post by Nthomas on May 21, 2015 23:43:03 GMT
I am making this post / thread in the hopes of drawing forth a few suggestions. What's the problem, you ask . . . simple, my defense . . . only had 3 linerats on the LOS to start. . . and almost from the very start an throughout the game I was down 2 then 3 then 4 and finally 6 and 7 players by games end.
What can I do? What other formations are people using? What skills are people using on their linerats? Personally, I have chosen to go with Block, Fend, and Wrestle.
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ted
Member
Australia GMT+9.5
Posts: 141
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Post by ted on May 22, 2015 2:28:07 GMT
Got told fend is the secret here for those linerats, especially the LOS guys. And when i need to set up a weak defence I dont place the LOS guys next to each other. Instead leaving empty tiles in between,forcing the opposition to either commit more players or use there guard. With the intention of leaving weakness or holes for your gutters to exploit. Also a 12th player is a viable option with the low cost of linerats, and this will directly help this Situation. Anyway good luck and have fun. ( not a skaven coach )
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Post by Hudd on May 22, 2015 8:36:59 GMT
There is not an easy way out. Fend is only really useful against Frenzy and Pile On, not common skills unless you are playing me - first up should be wrestle/block then dodge.
I would try and keep your squad size about 14 (assuming TV > 1500) with any AV7 team - especially ones with cheap linemen. You will lose players all the time...
Don't be afraid to leave players on the ground if they are going to stand up and just be blocked again. Don't move your guys into TZ unless you are going to be able to block away that guy later. Be patient and hold up the opposition, wait for him to stretch his offence and then pounce on the ball when you have to!
Other than that, just need to pray to Nuffle!
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Post by comfort_eagle on May 22, 2015 10:55:18 GMT
Find an angle.
There's balance to most of the tier 1-2 teams... if you've got av7, it means you have serious strengths elsewhere which you should be exploiting, whether it's extra mobility, agility, or skill access across the positionals on the team which can give you an edge. If you let bash teams dictate the terms of engagement, it'll always be an uphill fight for you on that front. In many arenas, half the battle is the struggle to manipulate the play so that the way the game unfolds suits the strengths of your team.
When I play against rats coached well, it almost always seems like they can slip through to score whenever they want to. In defence, I find they are quick to exploit any positioning errors on my part because they can bring so much of their team to bear on any weak spots I present. If I get crammed to one side of the pitch, it usually turns into a race against the clock, and again, they are quick to pounce on errors/risky play in my positioning. Give them an inch, they'll take a mile and be down at the opposite endzone in a flash.
In terms of skills, I reckon Hudd's right... a deeper bench, and wrestle dodge is perfect for linerats. They don't usually live longer than level 3 anyway, and you want them to get punched since their job is to take the heat off the really important positionals =)
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Post by Deano79 on May 22, 2015 14:00:09 GMT
+1 for the above posts. Especially Hudd's point that you don't always have to stand the linos up if they are just going to get smashed again. The real stars of the Skaven team are the Gutter Runners and maybe the Stormvermin. The Linerats are cheap and disposable. So if a few are dying or getting beaten up but in doing so they are protecting your GR's and SV's then that really is their role in the team, and don't feel too bad about it. They are cheap and cheerful after all!
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Post by Nthomas on May 22, 2015 21:02:29 GMT
Really, want to thank you for all these posts ... a lot of good points
First, to Ted I wanna say big UPs for the formation idea kinda agree no real need to set up all 3 in the center just waiting to get punched in the face. Now when it comes to positioning I totally agree with you Hudd linerats should be used in a hit and run scenario. . . alright, Comfort now I am not gonna lie I have heard these terms thrown about more than just once or twice. . . So, I am gonna ask again when you are talking about league play and my example is the current Bronze Shield. Is the tier of the team really a advantage? I mean before we even play are some team really gonna be able to preform better than others based solely on their Tier? Love the advice Deano & Hudd not standing to simply get smashed again is clearly a benefit.
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Post by havol on May 22, 2015 21:38:52 GMT
I love skaven. They are so quick and difficult to plan for that you can get away with some serious BS. For your Gutter Runners and, to a lesser degree, the storm vermin and throwers, you want them in base-contact as little as possible. Use hit-and-run tactics to try to dictate play. Your linos are there to soak up damage from your more valuable players. They're supposed to get hit. But as some of the advice says, don't let them take more hits than they need to. Look, even if you do everything correctly, some matches will be absolutely horrible. Even a slight breeze across the pitch will injure or KO your players. Other matches, where their armor holds reasonably well, then you'll likely be ahead by so many TD's that by the time attrition takes it's toll, you can safely cruise to victory. Just keep trying. They are one of the most enjoyable teams to play. As for skills: Linos usually get wrestle and then fend, or if doubles choose between guard and dodge. Throwers, imo, are to be built as better semi-blitzers. Block, tackle, maybe accurate or leader. If doubles, then dodge, two-heads, extra arms, or maybe even claw (depending on skills already taken) Stormvermin are to be built as killers. MB, tackle, PO/ guard. Dubs is definitely claw with horns or two-heads coming in second. Rat Ogre (some see this guy as bloat and unreliable as he's AV8 and expensive) gets Juggs, BT or SF. Dubs is usually between block or pro Runners! Now here's the fun!! I usually try to go for two ball hawks: wrestle, strip ball, tackle, dauntless with dubs rolls going 2heads or horns depending on skills already in hand. The other two are general-purpose: block, sidestep, diving tackle/ shadowing, tackle with dubs giving them guard, 2heads, extra arms, or big hand. As for stat-boosts, ALWAYS (!) take the +ST and AG (unless the RO, he only gets +ST). A case can be made for +MA for anyone on your team save the RO. +AV should be skipped for something better, imo. Oh... and don't get too attached to any player on your team. They will die a horrible death. I've a few GR's that will make me cry when they undoubtedly die
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Post by comfort_eagle on May 24, 2015 7:04:53 GMT
Everyone breaks the tiers down slightly differently, but my opinion is that some teams do clearly have easy access to the most useful skills, while others don't. Its not that you can't win with tier 3 teams, or that the team isn't designed to take advantage of specific strategies... its just that the conditions needed for them to run optimally are slimmer, and even then, you have to play around their obvious disadvantages.
In league play, by the time you reach bronze, some of these discrepancies have usually been ironed out a little because you've had a chance to develop your team to cover for their weaknesses (hopefully). But for example, Autismawareness' gobbos might still find the season rough cos there are more than enough teams fielding players with tackle/mighty-blow combinations, which usually spells death for stunty teams. So far he's done brilliantly, using his inducement money to buy Morg'n'Thorg to be his ball carrier, and his secret weapons are firing well, but the latter are risky business even at the best of times. What the tier 3 teams lack is consistency and reliability, and regular skill access is also a limiting factor. Typically, no player on the tier 3 rosters can access general skills on a normal skill up - which can make normal game play (blocking, picking up the ball, you know - advanced strategies like that...) slightly difficult.
Now, they ARE very fun to play, because in attempts to make up for their weaknesses, tier 3 teams usually have unique rule sets that apply to them. If you can take advantage of these (and if nuffle is kind), you usually get to experience the most rewarding game-play the game contains.
my two cents Comfort
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Post by autismawareness/joejohnheath on May 24, 2015 18:25:37 GMT
Comfort is right. I really should have more skills to be competitive. I have only gotten away with it so far because I had enough of a gap to get Morg and I've been very lucky. Of course, that was my dastardly plan all along. To a certain extent, that really was my plan but I didn't come into it expecting to have a winning record either. I am expecting to get my butt kicked next game vs Cradle because he has the skills that Comfort mentioned, and I don't have the tv for Morg. I lucked out when I used these guys in Iron Breakers as well (this exact team). Of course back then, I was getting Morg and Ripper at the same time for some games. If I remember correctly, it was the league that is equivalent to Iron now. Best advice for "weaker" teams... and I had to relearn it with Havol in the Open before I actually started up league play again (after a 3 year break)- don't end up in contact with the opposition at the end of your turn. It may seem obvious. I don't know why it wasn't to me anymore. It is so basic. If they only get one hit on you per turn (blitz), then they will have a very difficult time trying to take out your team.
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