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Post by jounisii on Jun 12, 2015 16:57:26 GMT
Well, as a hybrid team lizards have to be able to adjust their style depending on the opponent. Against AG you have ST and bash advantage, against bash you have speed. Against bash I switch a lot until I see an opening. With such fast players you don't have cross centerline very deep to be in a scoring position. And IMHO BT is kinda those passive skills. Like leap or some such. Your oppo has to be wary of that. He can't just tie your saurii and make a lone break. But of course you use it when you have to reposition and sticky situations. For my kinda play ability to shuffle the formation is the key. SS/DT skinks die. I know. You've killed a few of mine I've seen kick on lizzies. When saurii are quite well developed. I wouldn't use skink dub on that. And then the fouling. After maybe 3 SS skinkies, SG will come into the mix. And when your skinks get doubles, what are the choices? SH for sure. Block maybe on 1 or 2. But DP probably would be my 3rd pick. so, SH, block, DP. And about skink fouling in general: why do you think Saurii have had decent success in IP leagues?
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Post by Hudd on Jun 12, 2015 19:39:05 GMT
One of the other problems is that with those 2 super skinks, no one else ever gets a TD There has been a few seasons where both have scored over 10 TDs each. And also with those 2 skinks on the team, the Apo NEVER gets used for a skink. Last game a level 4 skink died early and the Apo stayed at home. Late in the game the +MV/AG skink died too but was saved! Maybe I will start feeding the L3 Block skink some TDs. And fouling some more. SH - is not getting a lookin with the two AG4 skinks as ball carriers. But I miss it whenever I play woodies and those awful strip ball WDs.
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Post by jounisii on Jun 12, 2015 19:50:57 GMT
Not a bad thing to have reliable scorers. But are you not able to punch a side open at times to farm some?
I agree that MOST of the skinks don't have apo rights. Some do.
SH ain't that important if you that AG4, agreed.
I've talked about the skills, but if you wanna further (alternative) insights, tell me some replays I should watch to see you in action.
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Post by Hudd on Jun 13, 2015 16:47:53 GMT
If you really don't mind, take a look at me vs Humbe in 3D this season. I always struggle against wood elves and this is no exception. Personally, I think I was just unlucky in this one. But I would be grateful if you have any suggestions about what I could do different. But at least I killed his ST4 WD
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Post by Hudd on Jun 13, 2015 21:57:46 GMT
Any advice will have to change - Xholten died tonight Ridiculous game against Chaos where everyone had claw. 5 players on the pitch at the end, but still won 3-2-2 now, Gobbos next week, and every chance of making tier 2. Pity have no players left.
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Post by jounisii on Jun 13, 2015 23:12:39 GMT
The match against wussies: Oh man, oh man, this ain't gonna be pretty. I'll concentrate on the 1at half when you lost the match. turn 0: Why did you choose receive? Which teams' basic play suffers more from that rain? And why, oh why didn't you try to down that tree with your strenght? Even if he stands up next turn, you have a chance to doen him next turn and then he would be out of play for many turns. turn 1: I applaud to your aggressive fouling. But that meant that you left your BC quite alone. All cool against bash. But against AG team you committed too much to the right. That's what elves want - to close you in 1 side and start their attack. turn 2: Now you reap the previous turns. But still all in control. But now you blob yourself in too tight space. Wussie swarm imminent. And Humbe is a good wussie coach. I would have formed a bit lower with more space to work with. Not necessarily that tight cage but force the up and coming leap blitz to be 1d. The wings of the cage need to be wide enough against leapers. turn 5: Your ball again. But you disperse your forces again. Against wussies i'd keep my formation pretty tight protecting the wings that´they can't get dudes on your back. With only 1 BT reforming the cage at least in semi reliable mode is a challenge. You did well there tho. turn 7: Why not attack the center column skilless lino? You could have formed high enough to be in scoring range but way more in the middle, which would have made the defense way more difficult. turn 8: You crammed yourself way too tight and stunty stuff didn't save you. Sorry for being so blunt. But sometimes being very harsh can wake 1 up. Many tactical mistakes in my mind. Still want me to continue with advicing?
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Post by Hudd on Jun 14, 2015 11:00:10 GMT
Sure - I was hoping you were going to say more than "roll less 1s" Thanks - I will watch match again later and digest.
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Post by parrigan on Jun 14, 2015 20:15:09 GMT
So... I've just suffered my 3rd consecutive demolishing with the Banana Warriors, and I know I'm stinking up the joint with them. I'm pretty happy with my roster, though I would like some more DT skinks. I really thought loading up on guard and BT would make a difference, but thus far it hasn't. My problem is I just don't seem to be very good with lizards, especially on defense. The last few matches I've been down a few big fellas early, and I just don't know how to recover. So I've spent a lot of turns with everyone lying down and trying not to die. Not a winning strategy, I know. Any advice? You've played me several times. Any tips you can offer would be appreciated. I know I'm making a lot of mistakes, and I don't seem to be making any improvements on my own. Any of my iron matches from this season should give you a good idea of what I've been doing, if you don't remember from the various beating you've given me. Thanks in advance.
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Post by Hudd on Jun 15, 2015 20:34:04 GMT
Why did I chose receive - I wanted to get started, killing lots of elves I didn't consider the rain a high priority as my AG4 skink does my ball handling. Trees - I had decided before hand to just ignore the tree. Maybe leave the rookie Saurus keeping him out of the game. I have got plenty of S5, but no Guard, so getting a 2D block on the tree is problematic, as he was flanked by SS and dodge. The bit I am most interested in is: "Not necessarily that tight cage but force the up and coming leap blitz to be 1d. The wings of the cage need to be wide enough against leapers." Can you elaborate? Food for thought on keeping things more central against elves. I was thinking that being closeish to the sideline would protect that side. You saw what happened on T3 when I was in the middle and the ball was knocked loose out of the cage... Thanks again!
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Post by jounisii on Jun 17, 2015 14:12:39 GMT
Seems like I somehow managed to lock this thread and needed help from CJ to undo my flub. So thanks. Back to business. Parrigan, I'll take a look a your game in the near future. It's been a while since we played and gotta check what your team looks like. 1 thing I remember tho: I was really scared of your ST6 BT krox but he was somehow underutilized in our matches. But I'll get back with you. Why did I chose receive - I wanted to get started, killing lots of elves I didn't consider the rain a high priority as my AG4 skink does my ball handling. Trees - I had decided before hand to just ignore the tree. Maybe leave the rookie Saurus keeping him out of the game. I have got plenty of S5, but no Guard, so getting a 2D block on the tree is problematic, as he was flanked by SS and dodge. The bit I am most interested in is: "Not necessarily that tight cage but force the up and coming leap blitz to be 1d. The wings of the cage need to be wide enough against leapers." Can you elaborate? Food for thought on keeping things more central against elves. I was thinking that being closeish to the sideline would protect that side. You saw what happened on T3 when I was in the middle and the ball was knocked loose out of the cage... Thanks again! What I meant was that elf ball handling chains are more difficult in rain. Especially when his team is pass, not running, oriented with no AG5 pieces. I understand your point with tree. But, unless he roots (can't really count on that), he can pick the pieces he wants to mark. For that reason I probably would have been more aggressive towards that piece. And when he goes down and you can disengage, a skink is a decent marker for him. When he gets back up, your formation should be far enough to negate tree's presence on the pitch. The last 2 bits. 1st of all, leaping elves are lizzie nightmare - the most difficult match ups to win. And making your cage leap proof is just not possible. What you can do is to make the blitz 1d and make the recovery of the ball very difficult. Let's look at this from elves point of view. What I try against cages is to get 2-3 guys behind the main line columning and screening in front of that line. When the switch to 1 side happens, I can box the tight formation to 1 side where maintaining solid columns/screen is possible with less guys if some attrition is taken. And when the cage gets stuck, I'll swarm. Tag some saurii if necessary and make the leap and hope for a good scatter. And since I have guys behind the lines, lizzie ball scooping can be quite difficult even if elves don't get the pigskin. Even if lizzies escape from that 1 side, they usually have to reform using skinks as cage corners and that is way more easy to break while many bigger guys are still stuck on 1 side. So, how I try to counter that. I try to keep the cage pretty tight in the middle. Back of the cage can be manned with skinks. Keep maybe 2 saurii on both flanks of the cage in such manner that elfies can't easily get (without dodging or blitzing a saurus) to my back. Skinks can help that screening. That will also prevent getting tying assists on the sides. So leap has to be from front with no good expoiting possibilities. Krox (well, a saurus as well) can even run a bit in front of the cage to provide frontal screen and to make getting those assists more difficult. It's worth noting that your guard pieces have to be properly positioned in the cage to prevent 2d blitzes. Eventually elves will penetrate tho. Then I tend to switch. The side screening lizzies on 1 side should be pretty free tho to start a new cage. But usually at this point some elf attrition has struck and that's when I usually look to charge thru. Deep enough to get your BC into scoring range. After that I try to grow a big blob with double screens if possible and slowly grind closer to EZ before last ditch sprint for TD. I hope that opened up a bit more what I meant by my formations. And you're welcome, Hudd
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Post by jounisii on Jun 17, 2015 14:26:58 GMT
To add a bit. You charged many saurii into contact and left holes in your line right away. That way elves can deny you space by getting close to the cage, not necessarily into contact. Nasty blogesteppers might even tag you. And that space you need to maneuver that not-so-mobile saurus force. That's why I like to have BT in my team (well, among other reasons). As tried to point out, once you get stuck, the elves will come after your diminished formation. You might survive their blitzes, but you'll usually have to score quicker than you wanted. And that's basically what elves want. Not necessarily to score defensive TD but force you to score too early to start their own shananigans.
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Post by jounisii on Jun 18, 2015 1:11:50 GMT
Yo, Parrigan!
Looking at your team, it seems really good so you've done that management well. The thing is that your team seems to be a bit lean atm. I'm not comfy starting with less than 13 players a match. Including Slibli if possible. But still, 14 players is the number I usually go for. And that's saying fuck the wizard if you have to give him.
Ok, your most recent match against orcsies.
Turn0: A step too close, Don't give oppos extra blocks if quick snap happens. Wider saurii formation. I usually use 3 (LOS) - 4 (rest of the saurii) - 4 (skinks somewhat in the middle to prevent blitzes) formation.
T1: Your objective has to be to remove the biggest threats to skinks. Your play was good apart from... Don't bring all the good skinks on D. Save some for offensive drives. Because of that you probably didn't use a good fouling chance on that tackling blitzer.
T2: Good cage harassment. But you just cannot beat orcs with regular punches. Foul!!!!
T3: Orcs got lucky. And you finally fouled. With the wrong guy, against wrong player. Tackle players, my friend, are the demise of skinks.
T4: I don't disagree with retreating. Wrong direction tho. Your right side would have been good to make a fortress and then if getting lucky removals, you could have threatened ball again with your speed.
Orcs had pretty good 2ds in 1st half so that didn't help at all.
T8: 1turner has to be attempted.
T9: Was the hand-off worth it? Also, no scoring threats.
T10: Good recovery and good push. Upmost saurus could have been 1 more square to center to make it harder for orcs to cover that side lane.
Lizzies wanna control space. With that 1 square difference orcs would have had to roll more. Dodges or GFIs, if he wanted to close that lane. Or then he would have had to blitz your anchoring saurus committing many players for that. With your movement you can control the play as long as you have space. Is my point.
Gutsy and risky stall. I like it. Good score.
T12: Both BTs on same side. No like. Too aggressive attack on cage. You left 2 of your saurii to be hit and be out of play for some time. Some kinda screen would have been better.
The rest is history as greenies steamrolled and your ST was out of place.
So there. Any thoughts?
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Post by jounisii on Jun 18, 2015 1:14:01 GMT
Oh, and in the future I'd appreciate if you created your own thread for questions since this one seems to get blobbed and the train of thought might be lost. Cheers.
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Post by Nthomas on Jul 22, 2015 3:52:24 GMT
Jounisii, I was wondering if as I build up my Pro Elf and Lizardmen teams if you would speak with me about my builds and play selections? I have only one pro elf team, named the Ashenvale Archers. It is also my only team in Auld World. I built the team as a experiment. First to develop a passing game. Second to force myself to learn to deal with adversity.
My Lizardmen team is much closer to my heart as it is in the Phoenix Open. The Serpent Coast Salamander's. This is my second re-build of this team.
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