|
Post by Squiggy on Sept 2, 2015 10:15:44 GMT
Totally agree, though unless you're facing a team much stronger than yourself you can get away with only 2 guards, as long as they are on opposite cage corners. I'd also debate one of them having grab, to be able to reposition anyone trying to wall in the cage, and set up surfs and blitzes. This is situational, but since I tend to push as close to the sidelines as is safe, one player with grab does end up useful. Squiggy, a cage can best start central and movement can best be done forward, the moment a cage enters the sidezone you give away your intentions. Keep the playfield wide and deep. That way you have the most options and can probe the enemy line for weaknesses and exploit them. If you can pick a direction the middle has priority. By wide and deep I mean do not use all your players for the cage, try to hold the line and penetrate the enemy line deep enough to be a threat. Now he has to deal with several problems, breaking the cage or slowing it down, marking the players that are broken through his line, and holding the line. Perhaps he builds his defence with a flaw and you can work with that in your next turn. Ever noticed your players feel cramped if being clumped at one flank ? Nono I mean I try to push my opponent to a side, not my own cage :-)
|
|
|
Post by goodpass on Sept 2, 2015 10:58:30 GMT
Squiggy, a cage can best start central and movement can best be done forward, the moment a cage enters the sidezone you give away your intentions. Keep the playfield wide and deep. That way you have the most options and can probe the enemy line for weaknesses and exploit them. If you can pick a direction the middle has priority. By wide and deep I mean do not use all your players for the cage, try to hold the line and penetrate the enemy line deep enough to be a threat. Now he has to deal with several problems, breaking the cage or slowing it down, marking the players that are broken through his line, and holding the line. Perhaps he builds his defence with a flaw and you can work with that in your next turn. Ever noticed your players feel cramped if being clumped at one flank ? Nono I mean I try to push my opponent to a side, not my own cage :-) That sounds like a valid tactic, grab can be usefull there. Sorry, I see to often that cages drift to one side of the field, made me assume you did that too, sorry.
|
|
|
Post by Squiggy on Sept 2, 2015 11:05:26 GMT
Nono I mean I try to push my opponent to a side, not my own cage :-) That sounds like a valid tactic, grab can be usefull there. Sorry, I see to often that cages drift to one side of the field, made me assume you did that too, sorry. my fault for not explaining myself properly sir. I just find that if I have one or two players with grab, ideally blitzers or black orcs it is far easier to clear a path.
|
|
|
Post by goodpass on Sept 2, 2015 11:24:37 GMT
The Human Blitzer: the Bruiser, is a proven removal piece for giving you a numbers advantage on Doubles: Dodge is my first choice: providing two advantages (1) adding a free re-roll to any dodge attempt, and (2) negating a large percentage of blocks forcing your opponent into using a dedicated Tackle piece. My second choice is Side Step: causing your bruiser to effectively weave through would be tacklers on his way to is target. on Normal Rolls: Mighty Blow is the skill which starts everything off, turning a simple blitzer into a removal piece. On my next skill I would follow up with Tackle. Insuring that even the most elusive of players need to fear. Stat Increases: +ST is first: based on the fact of the shear number of times it can effect play with each roll. My second choice is +MV: again, because movement is free and always should be considered when you are able to stretch the field or in this case close the distance. ~Honorable Mention~ the skill Pilling On is incredibly effective as well. Only thing, is I don't like being on the ground to long. In Summary: It's a chess piece, and this piece can play a big or small roll for almost every player. Once you have mighty blow you can turn your attention to other pieces as this guy will earn his own spp. Almost magically all by himself. What are your thoughts? Guard. Or guard. Or maybe guard. Seriously, with their lack of power, and only having 5 players with potential strength access without lucky rolls, and their catchers being able to easily protect themselves with blodge/wrodge, guard HAS to be at the forefront of any blitzer's development to avoid being dominated by any team with ST4 players or a speed advantage. I like to have 2 big hitters with MB/tackle and possilby pileon, but I try to make sure all four have guard...and at the very least 2, preferably with guard/stand firm. Do you need guard to block Gutter Runners ? Still I am with you, guard is a very usefull skill, getting an assist is so much easier with guard. However the assigmment is what makes a player better for the task I gave. If guard is not doing that the assignment is perhaps flawed. picking skills to face ST4 players or those with a speed advantage is something that depends on the opponents of that moment. Dauntless or Tackle come to mind. Speed 7 is not beaten by many, and speed 8 of the Catchers is only beaten by Gutter Runners. Nthomas did call guard a no brainer so I think we are aware of it's value. Your words seem to indicate it as a primary skill for all Blitzers, I can support your thinking. Your the advocate to support Guard, still if you want to do a specific job perhaps that guard can be taken as a second upgrade ? You can Always take guard and you can't be sure the next roll gives you a stat increase or a double. That's what makes coaching so interesting, to deal with the opportunities when the windows open. Having a masterplan is like having a guide.
|
|
|
Post by goodpass on Sept 2, 2015 15:17:12 GMT
That sounds like a valid tactic, grab can be usefull there. Sorry, I see to often that cages drift to one side of the field, made me assume you did that too, sorry. my fault for not explaining myself properly sir. I just find that if I have one or two players with grab, ideally blitzers or black orcs it is far easier to clear a path. This is the part of the Academy we talk about Human teams. Grab makes it easier to pave a way or to free a compromised ballcarrier, good thinking.
|
|
|
Post by Squiggy on Sept 2, 2015 15:38:36 GMT
Apologies, I meant blitzers or developed linemen, i was on two forums at once and got my teams mixed up.
|
|
|
Post by goodpass on Sept 2, 2015 16:40:18 GMT
Apologies, I meant blitzers or developed linemen, i was on two forums at once and got my teams mixed up. Apologies accepted, multitasking is overrated.
|
|
|
Post by Nthomas on Sept 2, 2015 19:00:33 GMT
The Human Blitzer: the Scrimliner/Wingman or as I would say, the Tight End is one of the most versatile duel threat players on the pitch - on Doubles: here Catch leads off everything: giving your thrower another short to mid range pass target. Dodge is my second choice: providing two advantages (1) adding a free re-roll to any dodge attempt, and (2) negating a large percentage of blocks forcing your opponent into using a dedicated Tackle piece.
- on Normal Rolls: Guard is our main support skill: proving excellent blocking at the edge. Sure Hands comes in second: making it extremely difficult to remove the ball once the catch has been made, not to mention the fact picking up the ball now becomes second nature.
- Stat Increases: +AG not only is first here: It's a treat almost like the cherry on top. While my second choice is +MV: again, because movement is free and always should be considered when you are able to stretch the field for that go ahead score.
~Honorable Mention~ Side Step here is a beautiful option. In Summary: At the heart is the combo, Blodge. Making him so very difficult to knock down. All the rest are rolls of opportunity. Should you have that rare blitzer with +AG. What are your thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by Nthomas on Sept 2, 2015 20:13:05 GMT
The Human Blitzer: the Tackler is a universal piece transcending almost all positional as well as races - on Doubles: Diving Tackle is my first pick here: giving me one more opportunity even after those pesky pushes. Coming in second, as well as "thinking outside the box" is Shadowing: causing your tackle piece to seemingly case down his prey should they run.
- on Normal Rolls: Tackle is the skill here: providing a reliable means to bring down that ball carrier. Now, here is the thing... Wrestle is second: yeah, you heard me... wrestle which can bring down even those ball carrying pieces armed with Block.
- Stat Increases: +Str is the first pick here: adding to the over all shear number of two dice blocks your tackler can make. While my second choice is still +MV: again, because movement is free and always should be considered when you are able to stretch the field or in this case close the distance.
~Honorable Mention~ Really, and truly for me this is a must skill as well Strip Ball. Why do you ask? Simple... I mean, why in the world do you think I run across the field in the first place all just to leap and tackle you? lol... NO, I only ran at you because you had the ball silly rabbit. In Summary: Keep it simple. All these bells and whistles are not needed. Buy Tackle, it will work. My combo of Diving Tackle/Tackle/and Wrestle is a little overkill. Then again, since when have I ever played it safe. What are your thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by goodpass on Sept 2, 2015 20:56:23 GMT
The Human Blitzer: the Scrimliner/Wingman or as I would say, the Tight End is one of the most versatile duel threat players on the pitch - on Doubles: here Catch leads off everything: giving your thrower another short to mid range pass target. Dodge is my second choice: providing two advantages (1) adding a free re-roll to any dodge attempt, and (2) negating a large percentage of blocks forcing your opponent into using a dedicated Tackle piece.
- on Normal Rolls: Guard is our main support skill: proving excellent blocking at the edge. Sure Hands comes in second: making it extremely difficult to remove the ball once the catch has been made, not to mention the fact picking up the ball now becomes second nature.
- Stat Increases: +AG not only is first here: It's a treat almost like the cherry on top. While my second choice is +MV: again, because movement is free and always should be considered when you are able to stretch the field for that go ahead score.
~Honorable Mention~ Side Step here is a beautiful option. In Summary: At the heart is the combo, Blodge. Making him so very difficult to knock down. All the rest are rolls of opportunity. Should you have that rare blitzer with +AG. What are your thoughts? I think this confuses me, not a bit but a lot. Are those guys Scrimliner, Wingman and Tight End all the same ? Is there a difference needed for those that operate in the centre ( Line of Scrimmage ) or in a Sidezone ( the Wings ). Perhaps the team composition enlightens me, are you going to use those Blitzers as Receivers despite the fact the team has personal available that have catch out of the box ? If you want Blodge, why not prioritise Dodge ( on a double ).
Guard is most usefull in the centre during the clash just after the kick off and the contact that most of the time happens as both teams try to dominate the centre. At the edges of the field most of the time giving a normal assist is possible. Sure hands gives the Blitzer ballhandling skills, he can now run with the ball or try to pick up a raided ball more easily. Keep in mind that your Throwers have those skills out of the box.
So you use those Blitzers a bit as Catchers and a bit as Throwers, instead of capitalising their strenght you think that molding them into Jacks of all trades makes they add to the versatility of the team ? Trying to let them do the job of each other makes them even more average, perhaps you want to make them better in a direction their normal skill upgrades invite them to go. I think you are on the wrong track here.
Adding AG and/or MV makes them better at what they do, so I applaud for that.
Bloodbowl is a violent sport, so preparing yourself for that confrontation is needed. Your Ogre and 4 Blitzers are the ones best suited to meet the opposition toe to toe. They are the protectors of your ballhandling Thowers and Catchers. Your build indicates you want to use them as Ballcarriers/Receivers. That means other teammembers have to protect them, and they are not suited for that. Perhaps you have to rethink your playbook concerning the Blitzers.
|
|
|
Post by goodpass on Sept 2, 2015 21:18:28 GMT
The Human Blitzer: the Tackler is a universal piece transcending almost all positional as well as races - on Doubles: Diving Tackle is my first pick here: giving me one more opportunity even after those pesky pushes. Coming in second, as well as "thinking outside the box" is Shadowing: causing your tackle piece to seemingly case down his prey should they run.
- on Normal Rolls: Tackle is the skill here: providing a reliable means to bring down that ball carrier. Now, here is the thing... Wrestle is second: yeah, you heard me... wrestle which can bring down even those ball carrying pieces armed with Block.
- Stat Increases: +Str is the first pick here: adding to the over all shear number of two dice blocks your tackler can make. While my second choice is still +MV: again, because movement is free and always should be considered when you are able to stretch the field or in this case close the distance.
~Honorable Mention~ Really, and truly for me this is a must skill as well Strip Ball. Why do you ask? Simple... I mean, why in the world do you think I run across the field in the first place all just to leap and tackle you? lol... NO, I only ran at you because you had the ball silly rabbit. In Summary: Keep it simple. All these bells and whistles are not needed. Buy Tackle, it will work. My combo of Diving Tackle/Tackle/and Wrestle is a little overkill. Then again, since when have I ever played it safe. What are your thoughts? This makes more sense, you only roll double 4 out of 36 times, the other doubles are 10 and 12 and can be used on stat increases. So Diving Tackle makes they can't slip past you that easy anymore. Shadowing on a piece with MV 7 sounds like an asset indeed.
Yeah I gave that away, Tackle on a Tackler. Wrestle makes you can create holes even with both down results, and is a threat for the ballcarrier, good thinking.
Adding MV to an already fast piece sounds like music in my ears. Makes Shadowing more effective too.
Strip Ball makes the ball bouncing against ballcarriers without sure hands. Tackle becomes a Push if the enemy has Dodge but it still makes that ball bounce. So for those having Strip ball Tackle does not have the highest priority.
Tackle on only a few of your players can make they are targeted first so the opponent can use his dodgers without being hindered. The simplest solution is to have it on more of your players. A bit harder is to shield your Tacklers.
|
|
|
Post by Nthomas on Sept 2, 2015 21:48:36 GMT
The Human Blitzer: the Scrimliner/Wingman or as I would say, the Tight End is one of the most versatile duel threat players on the pitch - on Doubles: here Catch leads off everything: giving your thrower another short to mid range pass target. Dodge is my second choice: providing two advantages (1) adding a free re-roll to any dodge attempt, and (2) negating a large percentage of blocks forcing your opponent into using a dedicated Tackle piece.
- on Normal Rolls: Guard is our main support skill: proving excellent blocking at the edge. Sure Hands comes in second: making it extremely difficult to remove the ball once the catch has been made, not to mention the fact picking up the ball now becomes second nature.
- Stat Increases: +AG not only is first here: It's a treat almost like the cherry on top. While my second choice is +MV: again, because movement is free and always should be considered when you are able to stretch the field for that go ahead score.
~Honorable Mention~ Side Step here is a beautiful option. In Summary: At the heart is the combo, Blodge. Making him so very difficult to knock down. All the rest are rolls of opportunity. Should you have that rare blitzer with +AG. What are your thoughts? I think this confuses me, not a bit but a lot. Are those guys Scrimliner, Wingman and Tight End all the same ? Is there a difference needed for those that operate in the centre ( Line of Scrimmage ) or in a Sidezone ( the Wings ). Perhaps the team composition enlightens me, are you going to use those Blitzers as Receivers despite the fact the team has personal available that have catch out of the box ? If you want Blodge, why not prioritise Dodge ( on a double ).
Guard is most usefull in the centre during the clash just after the kick off and the contact that most of the time happens as both teams try to dominate the centre. At the edges of the field most of the time giving a normal assist is possible. Sure hands gives the Blitzer ballhandling skills, he can now run with the ball or try to pick up a raided ball more easily. Keep in mind that your Throwers have those skills out of the box.
So you use those Blitzers a bit as Catchers and a bit as Throwers, instead of capitalising their strenght you think that molding them into Jacks of all trades makes they add to the versatility of the team ? Trying to let them do the job of each other makes them even more average, perhaps you want to make them better in a direction their normal skill upgrades invite them to go. I think you are on the wrong track here.
Adding AG and/or MV makes them better at what they do, so I applaud for that.
Bloodbowl is a violent sport, so preparing yourself for that confrontation is needed. Your Ogre and 4 Blitzers are the ones best suited to meet the opposition toe to toe. They are the protectors of your ballhandling Thowers and Catchers. Your build indicates you want to use them as Ballcarriers/Receivers. That means other teammembers have to protect them, and they are not suited for that. Perhaps you have to rethink your playbook concerning the Blitzers.
It is possible, I was confused as I was reading both you and Squiggy's posts. My understanding was to make a blizter whom operated on the edge. Providing supporting blocking. "First thing, that came to my mind" was the Tight end. Whom in american football is on the line of scrimmage. I think, I read the word Wingman and kinda went for it.
|
|