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Post by Ren Höek on Oct 19, 2015 20:55:32 GMT
You have hopefully all followed the discussions about buying mercs for inducement money. Some fine points and a vote was made. Resulting in the following. From now on you may NOT buy mercenaries with your inducement money. You may still buy star-players though.
After this season we will evaluate this new rule and depending on what we all think it might change. But it stands for this season. Star-players or loners is all you have to lean on.
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Post by comfort_eagle on Nov 9, 2015 22:10:18 GMT
Ok, so I'm in a spot this week where this rule is going to destroy me... I'm not trying to exploit the system or anything - its just that I run a vamp team with mostly av7. I've lost 1-2 thralls fairly consistently each game so far (dead or MNG) as well as a vamp or two. This week, I'll be fielding a bare bones 11 players, with 4 vamps on. No mercs for me means any bloodlust roll could potentially decimate my second drive.
For future seasons, could we modify the rule so that we can hire mercs (to pad out a bench), but not be allowed to put any skills on them? Is that the situation we were trying to avoid?
comfort
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Post by Ren Höek on Nov 9, 2015 22:56:47 GMT
Well, yes. What we were trying to avoid is for coaches to exploit the inducement money to buy mercs consistently and/or unecessarily. I'm willing to make an exception to the rule now for your match (and any coach who can explain their siutation). As long as coaches don't mis use the mercs. So buy mercs, don't give them skills. You have my blessing. Til next season we can try to come up with details on the rule so that people CAN buy mercs when it is called for. (OR not, if I am the only one who thinks we might need an exception to the rule.)
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Post by Squiggy on Nov 9, 2015 22:59:58 GMT
Well, yes. What we were trying to avoid is for coaches to exploit the inducement money to buy mercs consistently and/or unecessarily. I'm willing to make an exception to the rule now for your match (and any coach who can explain their siutation). As long as coaches don't mis use the mercs. So buy mercs, don't give them skills. You have my blessing. Til next season we can try to come up with details on the rule so that people CAN buy mercs when it is called for. (OR not, if I am the only one who thinks we might need an exception to the rule.) I still think limiting teams to x amount of players in total, be that squad or mercs, is a better solution, based on the max amount of players a team can have (in hospital), so a team like vamps can stack the bench, whereas dark elves would not be able to do so, or at least be limited in doing so.
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Post by Ren Höek on Nov 9, 2015 23:05:36 GMT
True. I was thinking that he could only buy up to the race's limit (15 players for vampires), but forgot to clarify. And I see this case as an exception to the rule.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2015 0:26:19 GMT
True. I was thinking that he could only buy up to the race's limit (15 players for vampires), but forgot to clarify. And I see this case as an exception to the rule. Wait up hang on hold up It's your house and you can do as you like mate. I'm just confused as to whether the new rule is absolute, and if it is not absolute, concerned that making exceptions is inherently unbalanced. The rule is "no mercs, period" right? Can we buy mercs up to our race's limit? or is this a 1 week exception for Comfort's specific case? Comfy's match has been played (against me), and I had 11 players as well (with less AV 8 and no regen). Granted I had some MB and wasn't biting my own players (though he wasn't doing it much either ) If the rule is "No Mercs" we shouldn't be granting exceptions under arbitrary circumstances. I wouldn't want to see coaches filing to have the new rule not apply to them every week. Personally I think the rule "you may not buy mercs so that your roster is larger than the race limit" is the superior rule, but the rule this season is "no mercs" and we should stand by it till the end of the season at least. Of course it's your call mate, I'm just giving my opinion. Sorry for being a hardass
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2015 0:36:34 GMT
Well, yes. What we were trying to avoid is for coaches to exploit the inducement money to buy mercs consistently and/or unecessarily. I'm willing to make an exception to the rule now for your match (and any coach who can explain their siutation). As long as coaches don't mis use the mercs. So buy mercs, don't give them skills. You have my blessing. Til next season we can try to come up with details on the rule so that people CAN buy mercs when it is called for. (OR not, if I am the only one who thinks we might need an exception to the rule.) I still think limiting teams to x amount of players in total, be that squad or mercs, is a better solution, based on the max amount of players a team can have (in hospital), so a team like vamps can stack the bench, whereas dark elves would not be able to do so, or at least be limited in doing so. Th e rule Squiggy suggested is what I would like to see implemented (next season). My main gripe with the previous merc rules was that I would encounter teams or spectate games where a race with a roster limit of say, 13 players, would walk on the pitch with 15 players by inducing mercs. Often they were positionals with extra skills, and any permanent injury they received could be laughed off as they would be irrelevant the next match. Making selective exceptions is worse than not having a rule I think. Changing the rule for everyone or sticking with "No mercs period" are both far better options. again, sorry I'm such a hardass, Ren
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Post by Ren Höek on Nov 16, 2015 1:17:54 GMT
Don't be sorry Knockoff. You are quiet right in your concern. I was a bit hesitant to make the exception (and probably I shouldn't have), but I was caught in a soft moment and allowed Comfort to buy mercs for this match. What you point out is to me now more obvious.. and I should've been a hard ass when I think about it.
It's of course silly to have a rule and then allow people to not follow it, especially since it could very easily become a sliding scale. -"On what grounds should I allow it and on what grounds should I not, etc... ?" With allowing exceptions I am only putting myself in a hard place.
I have now decided that there will be no more exceptions to the 'no mercs'-rule this season and for next season we might decide on changing this rule or not. I hope you aren't too miffed about Comforts advantage that he got in your match. And I'm sorry I faltered in this case.
Good that you voiced your opinion! So we can nip my temporary weakness in the bud.
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Post by comfort_eagle on Nov 19, 2015 14:35:55 GMT
I too am not a fan of rule changes mid season. No harm, no foul... Me and knockoff's md4 game was played without any mercs on either side, and a good time was had by all (except for all the fail dice).
I was more hoping to put my teams' situation forward as a case to consider for rule adjustments next season... I don't think any other coaches have taken vamps into cc for 4 seasons, so I thought I could offer a unique perspective. It's hard enough already, but vamps really need a bench to be even a little competitive in this format, and while this wasn't an issue in stretcher league, hospital league is getting filled with killers like corpose chitter which can lead to season ending games for a team like vamps in the current ruleset.
Having given this some thought, my suggestion for next season would be to either adjust the no merc rule, or else keep it but add vamps to the mid season transfer window, allowing them to refill their dead thralls up to their team limit. If this was the case, I would also suggest dropping the team limit from 15 to 14.
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Post by Squiggy on Nov 19, 2015 14:44:14 GMT
I too am not a fan of rule changes mid season. No harm, no foul... Me and knockoff's md4 game was played without any mercs on either side, and a good time was had by all (except for all the fail dice). I was more hoping to put my teams' situation forward as a case to consider for rule adjustments next season... I don't think any other coaches have taken vamps into cc for 4 seasons, so I thought I could offer a unique perspective. It's hard enough already, but vamps really need a bench to be even a little competitive in this format, and while this wasn't an issue in stretcher league, hospital league is getting filled with killers like corpose chitter which can lead to season ending games for a team like vamps in the current ruleset. Having given this some thought, my suggestion for next season would be to either adjust the no merc rule, or else keep it but add vamps to the mid season transfer window, allowing them to refill their dead thralls up to their team limit. If this was the case, I would also suggest dropping the team limit from 15 to 14. Assuming thralls only, I think that's an excellent solution.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 16:02:31 GMT
I have a hard time imaging this will stay limited to just thralls on the vamp team.
Case in point; I submit that skaven linerats should be included in this hypothetical new transfer window.
I won't be the last AV7 coach to ask either...
My point is; lets have the same rules for everybody
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Post by parrigan on Nov 19, 2015 16:05:30 GMT
I like the simple roster limit rule, as in:
1) No one may buy journeymen for a match that cause their team to exceed its race-specific roster limit (i.e. 13 players for humans). 2) Star Players do not count toward this limit.
Keeps it simple, keeps it fair, allows little or no room for interpretation. Special exceptions for various races just makes it more complicated than it needs to be.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 16:08:06 GMT
I like the simple roster limit rule, as in: 1) No one may buy journeymen for a match that cause their team to exceed its race-specific roster limit (i.e. 13 players for humans). 2) Star Players do not count toward this limit. Keeps it simple, keeps it fair, allows little or no room for interpretation. Special exceptions for various races just makes it more complicated than it needs to be. THIS MAN DESERVES AN AWARD I cast my meaningless vote for the rule above. Carving out unique exceptions by race will just piss off the people who cant get some love. That way lies madness
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Post by Squiggy on Nov 19, 2015 16:21:49 GMT
I suggested that originally and was shot down
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 16:35:27 GMT
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