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Post by comfort_eagle on Nov 19, 2015 19:56:57 GMT
I have a hard time imaging this will stay limited to just thralls on the vamp team. Case in point; I submit that skaven linerats should be included in this hypothetical new transfer window. I won't be the last AV7 coach to ask either... My point is; lets have the same rules for everybody Stunties already get special consideration because of their particular proneness to injury. No other team has bloodlust, which is difficult enough to manage with no rerolls and no pro. It's not the av7 alone which calls for this inclusion in the transfer window. Besides, zons, norse, and skaven (the only other non stunty av7 teams) are rightly considered tier 1 or 2 teams particularly in this format. Vamps have always been tier 3 along with most of the stunties. Do you honestly feel skaven are underpowered? The intention of my suggestion was to bring balance so that the less played teams get more play. Maybe play a season or two of vamps or gobbos yourself and then tell me whether exceptions are fair.
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Post by Squiggy on Nov 19, 2015 20:34:46 GMT
I have a hard time imaging this will stay limited to just thralls on the vamp team. Case in point; I submit that skaven linerats should be included in this hypothetical new transfer window. I won't be the last AV7 coach to ask either... My point is; lets have the same rules for everybody Stunties already get special consideration because of their particular proneness to injury. No other team has bloodlust, which is difficult enough to manage with no rerolls and no pro. It's not the av7 alone which calls for this inclusion in the transfer window. Besides, zons, norse, and skaven (the only other non stunty av7 teams) are rightly considered tier 1 or 2 teams particularly in this format. Vamps have always been tier 3 along with most of the stunties. Do you honestly feel skaven are underpowered? The intention of my suggestion was to bring balance so that the less played teams get more play. Maybe play a season or two of vamps or gobbos yourself and then tell me whether exceptions are fair. I've always wondered how a handicap system would work. Like, if you play a tier one team, glhf. Tier two, maybe you are permitted mercs, or some other "minor" advantage. Tier 3, you have the full range of inducements available, including apoc. I'm NOT saying we should do this, it was just a semi-drunk speculative conversation I had with someone about CC a while ago...cant even remember who, which shows how seriously I wasnt taking it!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 20:38:26 GMT
I have a hard time imaging this will stay limited to just thralls on the vamp team. Case in point; I submit that skaven linerats should be included in this hypothetical new transfer window. I won't be the last AV7 coach to ask either... My point is; lets have the same rules for everybody Stunties already get special consideration because of their particular proneness to injury. No other team has bloodlust, which is difficult enough to manage with no rerolls and no pro. It's not the av7 alone which calls for this inclusion in the transfer window. Besides, zons, norse, and skaven (the only other non stunty av7 teams) are rightly considered tier 1 or 2 teams particularly in this format. Vamps have always been tier 3 along with most of the stunties. Do you honestly feel skaven are underpowered? The intention of my suggestion was to bring balance so that the less played teams get more play. Maybe play a season or two of vamps or gobbos yourself and then tell me whether exceptions are fair. The post you quoted was pretty unclear, my fault . The point I attempted to make was that changing the rules midseason and lobbying for exceptions is a slippery slope and if it starts now it will never end. I don't actually think I (or anybody) should be getting linos. anyway... Do you honestly feel vamps are competitively on par with the stunty teams in this format? Sure you need a deeper bench than rats or norse, that's why you roster limit is higher. If thralls could be killed by biting them then you would have a point. Also I fail to see how this problem wouldn't be adequately solved by the rule PN proposed, at least in future seasons, but I digress. Again, we all had an opportunity to contest the validity of the rule when the "Should we ban buying mercs?" thread went up. Obviously Ren is more than receptive to constructive criticism, but you said nothing. The middle of the season is far too late to be quibbling for rules changes that will benefit you and you alone. You absolutely have a valid point, an exception for vamps is something I would have backed before we kicked off. Frankly only speaking up when things are starting to get tough makes me doubt your objectivity. -Hardass
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Post by comfort_eagle on Nov 19, 2015 21:16:02 GMT
Again, I'm not for rule changes mid season. I am and have always been talking about next season...
I didn't mention anything pre season because the eventuality that I'd have 3 thralls die on me in 5 games wasn't yet a reality. I'm speaking up now because I'm only just noticing a flaw to the rule that could be addressed in future iterations of this ruleset. You know I don't mind a challenge in this game, which is why I coach the teams that I do... I'm very happy to live with the rule we agreed on for season 5 (which is why I chose not to buy mercs for the game I played against you, even when I had special dispensation at the time). But I do feel for other would be vamp coaches out there in seasons to come.
I love cripple cup rules, but they do tend to change the way a team performs. Vamps are stronger than, say, gobbos in the normal ruleset where you can play around bloodlust. Without pro and rerolls, the only way to mitigate bloodlust is to have a decent bench. I don't mind having a bench decimated during the game due to good hitting from my opponent, but to start a game with zero bench because of deaths, and having no option to get more players back on your team all season seems harsh. I'd agree with you about the suggestion you put forward in coming seasons about allowing loner linemen up to the team limit - it's a good solution.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 21:26:38 GMT
Again, I'm not for rule changes mid season. I am and have always been talking about next season... I didn't mention anything pre season because the eventuality that I'd have 3 thralls die on me in 5 games wasn't yet a reality. I'm just noticing a flaw to the rule that could be addressed in future iterations of this ruleset. You know I don't mind a challenge in this game, which is why I coach the teams that I do... I'm very happy to live with the rule we agreed on for season 5 (which is why I chose not to buy mercs for the game I played against you, even when I had special dispensation at the time). But I do feel for other would be vamp coaches out there in seedings to come. I think we are actually in agreement here I am and have always been under the impression that the new rule is being playtested this season. I suppose I falsely assumed from your first post here you wanted and immediate rules change mid-season, my bad . My hope is we will see the merc rule as Parrigan phrased it in this thread instituted next season, which seems like it would make everone happy. The last thing I would want is too see people crazy enough to play vamps scared off. edit; Just went back and read your earlier post, totally my fault for the misunderstanding. I think the disparate rules discussions are confusing me.
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Post by comfort_eagle on Nov 19, 2015 21:37:18 GMT
All good mate.
While I'm still around, I'll always be barracking for getting the less played teams more airtime at IP. Sadly, it seems only 0nst4r has followed my lead in playing vamps in stretcher (and has had an awful season!). I'd love for Hudds gobbos to do even better than mine in bronze next season!
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Post by parrigan on Nov 19, 2015 21:49:52 GMT
I played 3 seasons of ogres and one season of gobbos in CC, so I say I've played my tier 3 dues. Let some other suckers travel that road.
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Post by Ren Höek on Nov 19, 2015 22:02:18 GMT
Anyone who has followed my Khorne team in Hospital can see that I have added Khorne to the tier 3 family also. But serioulsy. This is a great discussion. Like Comfort, I am also all for trying to promote the less played races when possible. For some reason, coaches who play the 'shitty' races are almost always relaxed dudes that don't go ape-shit when everything falls apart. As an admin, those are the best coaches you can wish for in a league.
It seems that Parrigans (and others, but PN gets the credit here) suggestion, or wording of suggestion, is the most agreeable. It is also nice to be able to keep the rules as simple as possible. As Knockoff mentioned, the rule for this season was not a rule for all eternity. It is through discussions like this rules get evaluated and improved.
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