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Post by gone on Sept 11, 2015 20:43:41 GMT
I personally think the Dwarf's should have had price increases as well since the ork's blitzers got them. Comparing the two teams, orks have it rougher than the Dwarf's. Below are listed some examples.
Advantages: Orks 1) 4 players with an increase in strength. 2) More versatility in regards to option of pass or run. 3) Slightly faster in general. 4) Cost is slightly less in regards to linemen.
Dwarves 1) All but one position have block. 2) 2 players that have dauntless. 3) 4 players that have movement 6 which heavily makes up for lack of maneuverability. 4) Skills on specific positions and block on almost every position can make the team waaaaaay less reliable on rerolls.
The advantage still goes to the dwarves. Simply because they limit the ability of the other team without much repercussions or fear of getting anything on the receiving end. And this is against pretty much all other teams. Not only in the early game, but also in the late game. The biggest thing is that they simply don't do a whole lot of rerolls and will pretty much have full turns more often than not. Having a bad day with dice rolls. Don't worry! After the game, you 99% of the time won't have to worry about being short handed the next match as Loner is practically never a concern.
So why did they not increase the dwarf's higher agility players costs? This part should be the dwarf's downfall due to them being soo damn powerful in just about every other aspect. Their ball carriers should be like the khemri's race in that they have no agility higher than two. Debuffing the dwarves would be better.
Anyway, i still don't see the reason for an increase in price on the orc's blitzers in comparison. After all, the entire team doesn't have block and are limited to four players with it until spp increases. Of which, the dwarves have the advantage in that as well. As orcs get block to try and match up to the dwarves, the dwarves are getting guard.
Now I know that some of you will simply disagree, but no one can argue the fact that dwarves still op'd. they are heavy in giving casualties and limited in receiving them. This disrupts a crap load of other factors outside of in-match stuff.
yeah, they may lose a few matches, but do they ever really truly lose? During a match, are they short of players? How often are they "short handed" in a match? How often are they found in a position of being hopeless in doing anything? Even after a match is over, they may have suffered one or two injuries, but they are not hindered nearly as much as other teams when this does happen. And this happening is pretty much null as you can always look foward to playing the next match with a good amount of competition regardless of the previous match's outcomes.
Anyway, maybe I am ranting on here, but I have every reason to rant. This is the biggest problem for Blood Bowl in my opinion. And getting lineman with loner for any other team doesn't make up for it in comparison to dwarves... The dwarves should have been increased in value (money) more than any other team to help offset that problem. All teams should be able to progress the same with their money situation rather than struggle to "keep up." Lower armor teams should be cheaper.
What they did with the norse is well acceptable. They have a low armor value. This makes the team good on offense, but more prone to injuries. They also have a good diversity as well. Dwarves don't have that diversity. Dwarves ideal game is to overpower the opponent on their way to getting a TD. The problem with that is that they not only overpower the opponent to get that td, they overpower them almost entirely. a few examples below.
1) for the rest of the match... 2) encourages others to play dwarves so that they can "protect" themselves 3) affects the other teams next game possibilities 4) greatly affects early building teams ability to progress often making the other teams tv drop (sometimes by huge amounts).
Anyway, I hope ya all understand the reason why I don't like the dwarves. In bb2, with a lack of diverse teams, I have a feeling that this will be a problem. Try playing against dwarves back to back games. You will or should see the difference....
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Post by shaunuthun on Sept 11, 2015 21:52:27 GMT
Well If you get Claw MB on a couple guys in the Skaven team Dorfs and Orcs can both just lie down and take it
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Post by goodpass on Sept 11, 2015 21:54:01 GMT
Well im like 600th or something. Also my game ocasinally crashes before the game can start up so I have about 5 losses that I never even got into the match. I think I got one of those wins from you and not even got a crash screen, had one till now, played around 25 matches. Most curious happened when I thought I was creating a team and could walk away to watch some telivision. When the serie was over I was in the middle of a match, probably you can look for a match and create a new team. Never expected that, thought creating a team would close searching for an opponent. 600th from 3000+ is good.
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Post by shaunuthun on Sept 11, 2015 21:56:22 GMT
Well im like 600th or something. Also my game ocasinally crashes before the game can start up so I have about 5 losses that I never even got into the match. I think I got one of those wins from you and not even got a crash screen, had one till now, played around 25 matches. Most curious happened when I thought I was creating a team and could walk away to watch some telivision. When the serie was over I was in the middle of a match, probably you can look for a match and create a new team. Never expected that, thought creating a team would close searching for an opponent. 600th from 3000+ is good.
Yeah i don't know why i haven't crashed during an actual match but before i'm loaded into the pitch it seems to just freeze occasionally very frustrating
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Post by goodpass on Sept 11, 2015 22:09:40 GMT
I personally think the Dwarf's should have had price increases as well since the ork's blitzers got them. Comparing the two teams, orks have it rougher than the Dwarf's. Below are listed some examples. Advantages: Orks 1) 4 players with an increase in strength. 2) More versatility in regards to option of pass or run. 3) Slightly faster in general. 4) Cost is slightly less in regards to linemen. Dwarves 1) All but one position have block. 2) 2 players that have dauntless. 3) 4 players that have movement 6 which heavily makes up for lack of maneuverability. 4) Skills on specific positions and block on almost every position can make the team waaaaaay less reliable on rerolls. The advantage still goes to the dwarves. Simply because they limit the ability of the other team without much repercussions or fear of getting anything on the receiving end. And this is against pretty much all other teams. Not only in the early game, but also in the late game. The biggest thing is that they simply don't do a whole lot of rerolls and will pretty much have full turns more often than not. Having a bad day with dice rolls. Don't worry! After the game, you 99% of the time won't have to worry about being short handed the next match as Loner is practically never a concern. So why did they not increase the dwarf's higher agility players costs? This part should be the dwarf's downfall due to them being soo damn powerful in just about every other aspect. Their ball carriers should be like the khemri's race in that they have no agility higher than two. Debuffing the dwarves would be better. Anyway, i still don't see the reason for an increase in price on the orc's blitzers in comparison. After all, the entire team doesn't have block and are limited to four players with it until spp increases. Of which, the dwarves have the advantage in that as well. As orcs get block to try and match up to the dwarves, the dwarves are getting guard. Now I know that some of you will simply disagree, but no one can argue the fact that dwarves still op'd. they are heavy in giving casualties and limited in receiving them. This disrupts a crap load of other factors outside of in-match stuff. yeah, they may lose a few matches, but do they ever really truly lose? During a match, are they short of players? How often are they "short handed" in a match? How often are they found in a position of being hopeless in doing anything? Even after a match is over, they may have suffered one or two injuries, but they are not hindered nearly as much as other teams when this does happen. And this happening is pretty much null as you can always look foward to playing the next match with a good amount of competition regardless of the previous match's outcomes. Anyway, maybe I am ranting on here, but I have every reason to rant. This is the biggest problem for Blood Bowl in my opinion. And getting lineman with loner for any other team doesn't make up for it in comparison to dwarves... The dwarves should have been increased in value (money) more than any other team to help offset that problem. All teams should be able to progress the same with their money situation rather than struggle to "keep up." Lower armor teams should be cheaper. What they did with the norse is well acceptable. They have a low armor value. This makes the team good on offense, but more prone to injuries. They also have a good diversity as well. Dwarves don't have that diversity. Dwarves ideal game is to overpower the opponent on their way to getting a TD. The problem with that is that they not only overpower the opponent to get that td, they overpower them almost entirely. a few examples below. 1) for the rest of the match... 2) encourages others to play dwarves so that they can "protect" themselves 3) affects the other teams next game possibilities 4) greatly affects early building teams ability to progress often making the other teams tv drop (sometimes by huge amounts). Anyway, I hope ya all understand the reason why I don't like the dwarves. In bb2, with a lack of diverse teams, I have a feeling that this will be a problem. Try playing against dwarves back to back games. You will or should see the difference.... All races with high cost lineman get more bucks for their loners. Those Dwarves come packed with a bunch of skills. Probably they see their low Speed and Agility as a real disadvantage already. There must be a reason people hate playing against Dwarves.
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Post by gone on Sept 11, 2015 23:28:57 GMT
All races with high cost lineman get more bucks for their loners. Those Dwarves come packed with a bunch of skills. Probably they see their low Speed and Agility as a real disadvantage already. There must be a reason people hate playing against Dwarves. Well, I hate the dwarves period. They force other coaches to play more rugged teams for competitive reasons. They don't suffer the same worries as other teams for financial reasons and so on and so on... They are also relatively boring to play against and to play with. They offer nothing good but to the player/coach that only wishes hell on others to more than just in game matches... And are for more lethal than any other team. As I mentioned, they are waay less reliant on rerolls. If anything, they should have made the Dwarves more expensive to limit their team diversity for both the rookie and long term reasons. Anyway, there is a few other things I don't like either. For example, the wood elves lacking a blitzer (player w/ block) (if rumors be true). Take block away from the wardancers, make them cheaper, and make another position that would have block would have been better overall. Or make rerolls incredibly cheaper seeing that breaking cages or knocking over the ball carrier (especially with dwarves) that much harder and a hell of a lot riskier... and no, not all races with high cost linemen get more bucks for their loners....and not all races get those nice and useful linemen either...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2015 23:45:35 GMT
Now I know that some of you will simply disagree, but no one can argue the fact that dwarves still op'd. Yes I can they have 2 players with MA6, not 4 Orc blitzers are objectively better than dwarf blitzers, so of course they should cost more. the rest of the orc team's abilities has nothing to do with the price of the orc blitzer. If you honestly can't think of such a scenario, I have trouble believing you have played dwarves. Score in 4 turns against a competent defender, just try it. Lack of diversity is not a strength. Khemri may be the least diverse team in the game and it hardly makes them OP Also all these qualities describe orcs too. Do orcs not try and overpower their opponent on the way to the endzone? the difference is orcs have other options, they usually won't have to use them, but if anything goes wrong (KO blitz, pitch invasion, limited time to score) they can do more than just curse Nuffle and accept the loss. It sounds like you may have a problem with bash in general and not the dwarf team. Granted they're tough at low TV, but blood bowl isn't perfectly balanced. Those dorfs will flounder against orcs at any tv above 1600 or so If you play dorf-ball against the dorfs, you are almost certainly going to lose. So don't. Play to your opposition's weaknesses, unless they are orcs, because orcs have no weaknesses.
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Post by shaunuthun on Sept 12, 2015 0:41:43 GMT
I think that both teams are noob teams and that real men play rats!
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Post by Kaiser on Sept 12, 2015 0:48:30 GMT
in the creation of a team to work out how much a player costs the skill block counts as 3 point to the score, Dwarf are the ONLY team to get the block skill for 2 points (norse cost 2.5) and they have normal access the strength skills (guard and MB) and their RR's are too cheap so from that aspect they are op i think if the blockers (longbeards) started without block they would be fine... (after all elf teams dont start with dodge, hell they dont start with anything)
having said that, drawfs are hard to win with, and you wont normally score more than 2 times a game
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Post by apolloswill on Sept 12, 2015 0:55:53 GMT
You know what is OP? - Having a team where everyone have AG4. They can in many situations dodge away, pick up and catch a ball with the same easy as it takes most to go an extra step. - Having a team where everyone have dodge. Not only does it easier to re-position, but it also reduce everyone chance to knock them down with 16%, oh, and some of them have Block as well (and the rest easy access to block) - Any team with access to mutations. There are some ugly mutations out there. Foul appearance...claws...prehensile tail - What about the team where half of them have STR 5? - Or a team, where half have speed 8, dodge +stunty, and the other half have STR 4 -You know what I really hate? Those team where you put all that effort in to injuring them, and than they just regenerate. - What about those team that can do a bit of everything...passing, running, bashing...you know the teams that were the two original blood bowl team, who still seem to always be contenders in the top. - And the worst of them all, is those cute small (but still fat) ones. The ones that you just don't want to hurt, because they are so weak, who make you completely forget about the two strongest wooden pieces of the Blood Bowl. Those are the worst and most OP. By using my deduction skills, Blood Bowl teams in themselves are all OP. Enough of this. Where are the good old times where we just played backgammon and chess. Stop making me feel bad for liking the dwarves
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Post by shaunuthun on Sept 12, 2015 1:07:00 GMT
You know what is OP? - Having a team where everyone have AG4. They can in many situations dodge away, pick up and catch a ball with the same easy as it takes most to go an extra step. - Having a team where everyone have dodge. Not only does it easier to re-position, but it also reduce everyone chance to knock them down with 16%, oh, and some of them have Block as well (and the rest easy access to block) - Any team with access to mutations. There are some ugly mutations out there. Foul appearance...claws...prehensile tail - What about the team where half of them have STR 5? - Or a team, where half have speed 8, dodge +stunty, and the other half have STR 4 -You know what I really hate? Those team where you put all that effort in to injuring them, and than they just regenerate. - What about those team that can do a bit of everything...passing, running, bashing...you know the teams that were the two original blood bowl team, who still seem to always be contenders in the top. - And the worst of them all, is those cute small (but still fat) ones. The ones that you just don't want to hurt, because they are so weak, who make you completely forget about the two strongest wooden pieces of the Blood Bowl. Those are the worst and most OP. By using my deduction skills, Blood Bowl teams in themselves are all OP. Enough of this. Where are the good old times where we just played backgammon and chess. Stop making me feel bad for liking the dwarves so what you're saying is the only non op team is Goblins. Ok everyone lets all go goblins to make it fair!
and you should feel bad!
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Post by apolloswill on Sept 12, 2015 1:07:38 GMT
in the creation of a team to work out how much a player costs the skill block counts as 3 point to the score, Dwarf are the ONLY team to get the block skill for 2 points (norse cost 2.5) and they have normal access the strength skills (guard and MB) and their RR's are too cheap so from that aspect they are op i think if the blockers (longbeards) started without block they would be fine... (after all elf teams dont start with dodge, hell they dont start with anything) having said that, drawfs are hard to win with, and you wont normally score more than 2 times a game When I first started, I actually tried to sit down and do the math to see which race gave you the best stats for the value. Not saying my math was flawless, but the result I came to was High Elfs. The value for the speed, AG and AV, was a very good bargain compared to other races (note: Though in my calculation I did not assign value for which skill group each race had access too, which of course also should be calculated in).
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Post by apolloswill on Sept 12, 2015 1:09:28 GMT
so what you're saying is the only non op team is Goblins. Ok everyone lets all go goblins to make it fair!
and you should feel bad!
Oh no. And that's why Goblins are beyond measuring when it comes to being OP. They are so sneaky they even made me forget about them. Those bastards. The worst.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2015 1:11:17 GMT
@cj thats interesting. I'm not familiar with the point system you've described, where might I find it? Also, dodge on AG4 elves at low tv (when there is no tackle) is not at all comparable with block on dorfs with their terrible stats anyway... what makes dorfs good at low TV and terrrible as TVs increase is their skills.they need the block to contend with the ST4 bash teams, once the other bash teams have widespread block, the dorfs have guard. once the ST4 gits have guard, the game is mostly over for the dwarfs. If blockers lose their block to start the whole team has no stats or skills and wouldn't be viable at all, at any TV. Orcs would be superior at everything, at every TV and everyone would just play those dirty chorfs skill trump stats, but skills and stats will beat the skills every time. If you the edge in skill from the dorfs they have nothing at all. again these are just (slight) problems at low TV when skills are scarce, as dorfs don't really get much better as they develop. Nobody complains that chaos sucks when starting out because they become powerful later on. Perfect balance at all levels is not achievable Frankly I think dorfs are subject to so much (irrational) hate because people don't play them and never learned how to beat them.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2015 1:30:57 GMT
We really got sidetracked here .
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