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Post by Squiggy on Sept 14, 2015 0:31:58 GMT
Just for the sheer hell of it, my new task between now and BB2 being available is to make a dwarf team who can, and do, score a 1ttd.
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Post by shaunuthun on Sept 14, 2015 0:47:25 GMT
I've built a dorf team centered on dump-off runners. They even have an AG4 and a MA 6 pair of blitzers. To my constant frustration, it just doesn't work that well . I hear people talking about the build as a viable way to diversify dorfs all the time, but I can't believe anyone who takes it seriously has ever encountered it, let alone built a team around it. Personally I blame the dump-off skill for being so useless 99% of the time. My only two INTs sustained on Cyanide have been by dumping-off delf runners ( right, shaunuthun? ) I will have to enter those hairy freak in the IP Open to see if I can make it work. Not my fault! And for the record I don't think dorfs should be innovative they play their own style well. It is annoying that they are as good as they are so early and can shut Down some things but if you remove a couple players posistinals espically they have a hard time. Still tho fuck the beard things Skaven rule!
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Post by apolloswill on Sept 14, 2015 1:59:39 GMT
Alright, let's be direct (which is something I try to avoid, as this game is suppose to be fun, right?).
Dwarves are part of Blood Bowl. No matter what we say here, or not, they are going to stay. If you want to change the rules, you need to either contact Cyanide (which would have to contact Games Workshop), or you jump the hedge and go directly to Games Workshop. Than, perhaps you can get the rules change.
But until than, here is the dwarves, they are part of this game, and as much part of this game as Fouls, unfair dice rolls, Elf BS, and Claws/Might Blow combinations.
I avoided dwarves for the longest time, because people was always complaining about how OP they were. Heck, I'm not that good at Blood Bowl, but still don't want to be seen as still needing training wheels.
But because of this great community (IP), I started to learn a lot. I watched a lot of matches, got a lot of advice and read a lot of guides from people here, and also outside of Iron Phoenix. So I wanted to get better, and thought let's challenge myself. Reason why I joined Stretcher Cup, and played with vampires last Tin Season. After seeing the results of the matches, cups and tournaments, I thought; "those dwarves, are really not that good. Speed is everything in Blood Bowl. They don't hit harder than a lot of races (for example orcs), not the most durable race (regen teams), not the strongest team and agile team, they can't pass, and rushing have to be done in snail speed. Now here we have a challenging team. When I'm done with them, I should be pretty well-rounded." My conclusion is, they are not that good.
Not to knock Knockoff, but me as a complete noob, beat his dwarves 2-1 with my orcs, first match ever in Iron Phoenix. And I really, really was a noob. I knew the rules (actually, I knew the rules about 75%), but had no idea about the fundamentals within blood bowl, such as risk calculation, cage building or breaking, skill combinations and so on, and Knockoff, as we all know, is a very good coach. Maybe I was lucky, but I don't recall that match to be one big Nuffle feast. But again, the dwarves are quite hard to win with.
But I think we somehow have concluded that in our discussion. Now it is more, whatever or not they are boring to play against.
Come on, guys. It's like whining (here comes my directness). Complaining about a team is no different than crying about fouls or being unlucky. All is does, is to make the taste of victory for the opposite coach, bitter and dry. And if we did that to everyone and every game, in the end none of us, would play. Because, let's face it, it is a really nice feeling winning in Blood Bowl. This is what most of us, come back for. It's not like many other games (at least for me). No other game, give me the rush or hype, I feel after winning a game. No other video game gives me this adrenaline rush, just before a game. It's why I like playing this.
But telling me, I'm playing it wrong, because I like dwarves, or I'm just playing on Easy (which I disagree with), just take that rush/hype away when I'm winning.
I just won my semi-finale in Tin. I'm so excited about it. Talking with my woman about blood bowl for length (yes, even when she doesn't give a shit, and is just nodding politely, thinking, what the hell happened to her man), and just feeling good. I feel, I have come far, since I started in Iron Phoenix (Btw, thank you all coaches, admins, and mentors for teaching us all in here, and being such good mates) Than I jumping to this thread (or more like the previous thread), and it just takes the air out of the fun. My High is gone. So damn you all. Let the dwarves be. Let my game be.
Accept the dwarves, as you have accepted fouls and the beating of nuffle. Accept the dwarves as you have accepted some races are just faster or better ball handlers. Accept the dwarves, as you have accepted that it is unfair the underworld goblin can get mutation, but the goblins on your team can't. And most important, RESPECT MY HIGH, and get your own HIGH, when you beat my dwarves. I'm not going to curse you, or give you any other reason for you winning, than you just played better.
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Post by apolloswill on Sept 14, 2015 2:08:37 GMT
Do want to add, I have no problem with the tongue in the cheek, fun banter, against the dwarves and other teams, such as "it's just because you are using dwarves you won ". It is more like that; "WTF. This is BS. Those fucking dwarves are just so OP", that sucks to hear, after you just won. It's much better to get a "well-played mate" instead of it is leading to a long discussion whatever or not the rules are fair.
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Post by Squiggy on Sept 14, 2015 2:12:40 GMT
Do want to add, I have no problem with the tongue in the cheek, fun banter, against the dwarves and other teams, such as "it's just because you are using dwarves you won ". It is more like that; "WTF. This is BS. Those fucking dwarves are just so OP", that sucks to hear, after you just won. It's much better to get a "well-played mate" instead of it is leading to a long discussion whatever or not the rules are fair. There are so many teams for a reason, and each to their own. If I was gonna moan about any team being op it sure wouldn't e dorfs! That said I would like to see them, and about six other races, tweaked a little. Maybe one day...but then would we love this insane, horrible, beautiful game if it was perfectly balanced? I wouldn't. My only dwarf related moan is how hard it is to find matches for the dorf team I've built in Phoenix open!
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Post by shaunuthun on Sept 14, 2015 7:18:47 GMT
So we should tots do a thread about orcs as well right? The type of orcs that have no gobbos on their team that are just like the dwarfs but faster or stronger.
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Post by arthurwynne on Sept 14, 2015 21:50:31 GMT
Dwarves are interesting both to play as and against, due to the fact that they have a very distinct, different play style compared to just about any other team, which gives a match with Dwarves in it a unique character. In that respect they are awesome -and I don't think they're overpowered, although they are very good at low TV.
The problem with Dwarves is the same thing that makes them so interesting -they have a very distinct, different play style and it is the _only way_ to play them. With other teams you can try a variety of things -with varying degrees of success, sure, but you can _try_ and you can usually at least have some fun with it. But with Dwarves it's the same slow, positional chess game every time. I happen to enjoy that, at least occasionally, but it's annoying how strategically one-dimensional they are.
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Post by Kaiser on Sept 17, 2015 14:54:02 GMT
all i know is i have played 9 games vs dwarfs (8 as human 1 as orc) and i have 7 win and 2 draws and ZERO loss but they bore the shit out of me, dwarfs also teach new players bad habits dwarfs are under priced (their block value is cheaper among other things like the troll slayer) but i understand why as they are a shit team, and most vets will deal with the rookie dwarf players easy enough... an experienced dwarf player is another story, and though they are a challenge, its still a boring game to be in Humans (and soon DE and WE) rock and are the best teams
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Post by pjv3130 on Dec 21, 2015 21:52:57 GMT
Personally, it's not normal Dwarfs I can't stand, but more the Chaos variety. I don't play them as there's races I'll prefer spending my time developing like Nurgle, Humans, Underworld and Pro Elves to mention some. The only reason I'll coach Dwarves is for the Deathroller and the fact that their characters are amongst the best looking models.
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Post by courierdan on Dec 21, 2015 21:57:17 GMT
I'm gonna say normal dwarfs fucking suck. Anyone who's played me in this season's Bronze League can back me up on this.
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Post by shaunuthun on Dec 21, 2015 21:59:11 GMT
OH GOD NOT AGAIN ABORT! ABORT!
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Post by Squiggy on Dec 21, 2015 23:28:51 GMT
Abandon thread! *Dives overboard*
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Post by DocOz3000 on Dec 23, 2015 0:13:15 GMT
I say they're boring to play against simply because once the line-dwarves start leveling it's just like playing against an AV9 wall of Block + Tackle + Guard + Standfirm players... Man that's boring.
Op...no... especially at higher TV when the MB/PO/CLAW teams make Dorfs coaches cry...
But at 1000 - 1600 TV hard to beat these short bastards. At least for a crap coach like me...
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Post by havol on Dec 23, 2015 0:20:51 GMT
not much different than playing vs Orcs, too. A wall of AV9/ST4/Block/Guard. Granted, it takes the Orcs a bit longer to get there, but still... And god forbid you get some AG boosts on those Orcs. It's almost like playing against elfies with AV9
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Post by DocOz3000 on Dec 23, 2015 0:25:20 GMT
not much different than playing vs Orcs, too. A wall of AV9/ST4/Block/Guard. Granted, it takes the Orcs a bit longer to get there, but still... And god forbid you get some AG boosts on those Orcs. It's almost like playing against elfies with AV9 Hey hey!!! Let's leave my poor downtrodden green skins out of this discussion about Dorfs... ;-P
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